Challenging Convention: The Case for Intrusive Leadership

Interview Transcription –

Challenging Convention: The Case for Intrusive Leadership

(0:02 – 0:12)

Welcome to the Proof Point Podcast, where we decode digital success one click at a time. We share key takeaways fueled by data and insights that your team can implement today to drive growth. Now, let’s get started.

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This is Stacey Porter Bilger, your host for the Proof Point Podcast, where I feature B2B and D2C businesses and thought leaders, sharing marketing data tactics, sales strategies, and leadership insights that will kickstart your growth in this rapidly changing digital space. This episode is brought to you by Proof Digital. Proof Digital is a strategic and creative performance marketing agency.

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We partner with companies to create data-fueled marketing sales funnels and overall growth strategies. Visit ProofDigital.com to learn more. Before I get started, I want to do a shout-out to a previous guest of ours who somewhat introduced me to our guests, but our guests actually kind of found us based on our topic, is my understanding.

(1:09 – 1:26)

So, shout-out to Chief Jason Kuzik, who actually recently retired from the Coast Guard. He was on a previous episode, and the title was Intrusive Leadership. This is where the magic happens, and I took that quote from him in the conversation, which led to us connecting to our guest, Marcus Canady.

(1:30 – 1:44)

Thank you, Marcus, for coming. I’m going to give a quick introduction here. Marcus is the CEO of the Canady Leadership Group, which is squarely focused on improving the leadership abilities of people in the public and private sectors, drawing from personal experiences and military experience.

(1:50 – 2:07)

Marcus has become a leading voice on intrusive leadership and has traveled the country to spread the message on this critical leadership style. He’s a 24-year veteran of the Coast Guard, author of Intrusive Leadership, which we’re going to talk about today. You were a helicopter pilot and served our country, a thought leader, and simply a change agent.

(2:11 – 2:28)

Marcus, thank you so much for jumping on today. I can’t appreciate it enough. I know you’re a busy guy, and you’re giving us your time to learn a few things about how we can change the way we lead.

Yes, thank you for having me. Thank you so very much. To get started, I mean, I just like to know people’s story.

(2:37 – 3:09)

So, can you just talk a little bit about your journey?

Yes. So, my journey. So, my journey to the point where I am today, being someone that is truly passionate about leadership and being the lead voice on intrusive leadership, it goes really far back, but I’ll kind of start in the middle, and I’ll explain why I’m starting in the middle.

(3:17 – 3:32)

So, there was a time where I found myself simply in a mental space at work that I was just not okay. Yeah. I was walking around, acting like everything was okay, but things were happening in my personal life that were really causing me some stress and some mental challenges.

(3:42 – 4:22)

And so, I found it tough to compartmentalize my thoughts and focus at this time, even when I was in the workplace. At the time, I was a helicopter pilot and a commanding officer in the Coast Guard. Yeah. I had been trained and tried to train others about the importance of compartmentalizing whatever’s going on in your personal life so you can focus on the job. And I found myself at a point where I was struggling to do that. What was going on? I had just recently watched the murder of George Floyd. Yeah. I was thinking about Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery.

(4:28 – 4:47)

I was living in Houston, Texas. Every time I was driving into work, I drove right by where George Floyd was buried. If you remember back to 2020, there was a lot of racial tension going on in the country, right? And so, I found myself at a point where I was not okay.

(4:54 – 5:32)

And then I looked around, and nobody was reaching out to me. Nobody was saying, “Hey, how are you doing with everything that’s just going on in the world right now?” Friends, co-workers—I mean, I was having conversations with people because I was still working. But no one was really looking at me as a whole person, recognizing that because of what was going on in the country at the time, the conversations I was having at my kitchen table with my wife, thinking about my kids, and being a father of an African American son—no one was really thinking about me in that sense.

(5:38 – 6:13)

They were talking about me as the employee, as the Coast Guard pilot. I ended up writing an article that basically conveyed the idea that the Coast Guard, and really just people in general, did not need to miss the moment of being intrusive and ensuring that people felt valued and supported in a holistic sense, right? The feedback I got from the article was just through the roof. It was tremendous. It was literally more than what I was anticipating.

(6:15 – 6:19)

You were saying things people were thinking. 100%. Right.

(6:20 – 6:24)

And so the article was shared all throughout the Coast Guard. People reached out to me. People started asking me to speak about my feelings.

(6:30 – 6:44)

People that I did not know were calling me, telling me that I spoke exactly what was on their heart, as you just mentioned. I remember one member of the Coast Guard at the time said that for the first time, she felt like she could take a deep breath since watching that video.

(6:50 – 7:48)

So the reason why I say that this journey, I started in the middle, is because at that point, I really started to think about my favorite leaders, my favorite supervisors, people that have become that leader for me, right? The leader that I truly trusted, the leader that I worked for 10, 15 years ago, that I’m still in contact with today, right? When I started to think about those leaders, I had to go back to early in my career. So I was fortunate enough to be positively impacted by leaders that truly took the time to make intentional actions, to gain my trust, and to make sure that I knew that they cared about Marcus, not just the Coast Guard officer, not just the pilot, that they cared about me as a person.

(7:52 – 9:17)

They were willing to talk to me about sensitive subjects that I might have been dealing with, once again, outside the workplace. Right. The way that they cared for me, the way that they held me accountable when I needed to be held accountable, right? Right. So when I thought about those leaders and how they impacted me, when I thought about how I was feeling in that moment after watching the George Floyd murder, and once again, not just that, the Breonna Taylor situation, the Ahmaud Arbery, the Christian Cooper situation in Central Park, all of these things, and not having someone around that looked at me differently and was willing to engage with me to make sure that I was okay, that just started me on a journey of communicating the importance of it, researching it more, and then which ended up leading me to writing the book and, you know, touring, you know, going across the country talking about it. Well, thank you, Juan, for sharing that. And it’s just so vital for where we are right now in the world right now to really to have these conversations, to understand what our neighbors are going through, what our employees are going through.

(9:19 – 9:46)

I mean, when, obviously when COVID went through and all these different things were happening, I mean, the mental stress on all my employees was so high, and mine too. I mean, my stress was, okay, I’ve got to make sure that we make payroll and people who aren’t paying us pay us so that everybody’s okay. But I mean, they’re dealing with all these things in which you’re dealing with.

(9:51 – 10:05)

They’re dealing with sick family members. They’re dealing with mental health. Let’s talk a little bit about mental health because I know that’s kind of what kicked off our introduction, that story when I was talking to Jason, and it’s really how we found each other.

(10:06 – 10:29)

I mean, how you reached out to Jason and said, “Hey, I’ll talk to Stacie about this,” because I liked how you were talking about this. So you want to touch on that story a little bit and how that really, I mean, it’s such an issue right now. And we have to be aware and talk to our employees and our neighbors and our family members.

(10:29 – 10:50)

So go ahead.

Definitely. I will tell you that very early on, as I was doing research on intrusive leadership, I kept hearing story after story about how this leadership style has played a role in leaders being able to help someone at a time when they were thinking about taking their own life.

(10:59 – 11:30)

And so, very early on, I knew the impact of this leadership style on suicide. But I will tell you that every story, it hits me as if I’m hearing it for the first time. So every presentation I do on intrusive leadership, when I’m talking about the impact, the last one that I talk about is suicide, because, as you mentioned, for some reason, it is just becoming more and more of an issue in our country, in this world.

(11:37 – 12:01)

It’s hitting all people, right? Young people, the retiree community in the military, dealing with a lot. And I will tell you, it’s just all over. In my organization, I can’t go a month without hearing about someone that either committed suicide or is having suicidal ideation.

(12:04 – 12:39)

Right. So how did I end up hearing about the story of Chief Kuzik? I was doing a presentation in New Orleans, and towards the end of the presentation, one of the junior members in the room said, “Hey, I know for a fact that this leadership style that you are talking about saved a couple of lives at my previous unit.” And he just kind of told everyone in the room, like, “Hey, this is serious stuff.”

(12:44 – 12:58)

What this person in the front of the room is talking about, is he speaking the truth? So I ended up connecting with him later on because I just had to hear this story, and it ended up leading me to reaching out to Chief Kuzik and hearing his story. And it was just profound.

(13:00 – 13:45)

I will tell you, it is the best story that highlights how this leadership style can simply play a part in addressing mental health. Now, I always say play a part. I never want to act like this is the right, you know, the answer. I don’t act like there’s no need for chaplains or mental health professionals if you have intrusive leadership. Not at all. This is a tool that leaders have that can put them in a position where they can recognize who might need the mental health professional, who might need to go and call the hotline.

(13:47 – 14:32)

Right, right. So, Chief Kuzik, you know, he’s an intrusive leader, and it was very interesting because over the past couple of weeks, I was able to reach out to one of his previous supervisors that basically led him in this manner. And so this individual, Steve Cabral, I’m not sure—I believe he mentioned him. He might have when he talked to you. Yeah. The way that he led Chief Kuzik and the impact it had on Chief Kuzik, Chief Kuzik wanted to have that same impact on everyone else. Right. Yeah. It kind of trickled down. Exactly. So he led that way.

(14:35 – 15:40)

He made sure that he reached out, that he was caring, that he was very intentional in making sure the people that were working for him knew that he truly cared about them. Right. And because he did that, there were a couple of situations where he was in a position to play a role in someone still being here today as they were dealing with things. Right. Well, fast forward, Chief Kuzik ended up getting some bad news about a medical diagnosis. Right. And he decided that he was going to take his life because he didn’t want to be a burden on other people. Right. But he was taking some time getting some things in order—paperwork, whatnot—wanting to make sure the family was safe. And obviously, he thought he was masking his emotions, that he was still acting the same.

(15:42 – 16:38)

Well, his crew, people that were working with him, junior folks, because he was the senior person at that. There’s no hierarchy to this leadership style. Yeah. He was the senior person. Right. They recognized that something was off with him. Mm hmm. They weren’t getting the normal, happy, engaging Chief Kuzik, but they cared about him because he cared about them. Yes. But they recognized the change in him. They went to him. They went into his office and said, “We’re not leaving until you tell us what is going on with you, because we want the old Chief Kuzik back.” That’s who. And he finally ended up telling them what was going on. And they asked him, “Are you thinking about taking your life?” And he said he was.

(16:39 – 17:27)

And they ended up, you know, telling him how much he meant to them and got him to change his mind, change his plan. Thankfully. You know, it’s still amazing to me because later on, he found out that that bad news he received was a misdiagnosis. I know. And just think about what would have happened if those folks, people that were junior to him, hadn’t come into his office, if they’d just ignored it, if they weren’t intrusive. He might have carried out his plan before ever realizing that he was misdiagnosed. 

(17:33 – 18:23)

The story highlights multiple situations where, even at the workplace, people simply treating others the way they should be treated, caring about them, recognizing that they’re a person, not just an employee, making sure that everyone feels valued. Yeah, the job. There are people here today simply because of that. I mean, you hit a little bit more on the style, right, because, you know, we’ve both been trained on emotional intelligence, on servant leadership. We’ve been trained on other leadership styles. I’ve been to lots of different ones, and they all have pieces, right. They all have pieces that are important.

(18:25 – 19:13)

But this style, to me, is a little bit different because it kind of pulls in all of them a little bit. One hundred percent. I was doing an event and we were talking with a bunch of athletic directors at college, NCAA athletic directors, and they were just talking about leadership, you know, because at the end of the day, leadership touches every career field. Right. It does. Leadership is important at every level of an organization. I want my employees to lead in what they’re doing right now, it doesn’t matter what level, all the way to the top. I mean, we say all the time leadership is an action, not a position. Right. Action. I love that. I love that. It’s an action.

(19:14 – 19:52)

Yeah. So what I ended up talking to this individual about is to say, hey, if you want to tell someone to have emotional intelligence, you want to tell someone to create an emotionally safe environment. We tell someone to be willing to have difficult conversations, to be able to connect with them on a personal level, to be able to make them feel valued, right, to treat them as a whole person, to be able to hold them accountable, right, to increase their employee satisfaction, right, to create an environment that is truly inclusive.

(20:00 – 20:18)

I said, if you want a leader to do all those things, how do you tell them to act? What is the leadership style? And that person couldn’t name it. And I said, it’s intrusive leadership. I will tell people, and I will be honest that.

(20:00 – 20:18)

I said, if you want a leader to do all those things, how do you tell them to act? What is the leadership style? And that person couldn’t name it. And I said, it’s intrusive leadership. I will tell people, and I will be honest that.

(20:22 – 21:03)

You can hear elements of intrusive leadership in a number of different places. But I do think that what’s different is that this puts all of those things in a bucket and shows you how to do it in the actions that create those different things. Right. And I will say that what is really different, which I think is why I’m intentional in using the word, because it really highlights. You can do a lot of these other leadership styles that people think gets at this—servant leadership, charismatic leadership, engaging leadership, all of these things.

(21:11 – 21:41)

And only truly deal with the employee. So when you look at servant leadership, you can have someone that says, hey, I’m going to make sure that you have all the training that you need. Right. I’m going to make sure that you have all the resources. I’m going to make sure that you have all your safety equipment. You know, I, as your leader, I am going to serve you to make sure that you have all that you need to be successful. Right. And never ask you about how you’re doing outside the workplace. Never try to get to know you beyond the job.

(21:45 – 22:13)

And assume that’s not going to impact your ability to work. I mean, I have employees in various stages where they’re dealing with a sick parent or, you know, child care issues, you name it. From my assumption that those things are not going to impact their day is ludicrous. So it’s good. I need to have those conversations and be supportive and work through those issues. And each employee is different.

(22:19 – 22:50)

I’ll touch on a couple of things. In a lot of our professions, military professions, police, firefighters—let’s take police officers. They put their life on the line every single time they put on that uniform and walk the streets to make things safe for us. They put 100 percent of themselves on the line. Now, so they consider 15 percent of them to be an employee.

(22:55 – 23:42)

That other 85 percent being a wife, a mother, father, son, daughter—everything that makes them up. When they put their uniform on and they are working, the part of them that is a father, we are going to ask them to sacrifice that part if the time comes. The part of them that is a wife, we’re going to ask them to put that part of themselves on the line to keep American citizens safe. Right? We ask the police officer to put 100 percent of themselves on the line every day, and yet we have people who only want to lead the 15 percent, not the whole person.

(23:48 – 24:11)

You can’t do that. If you really want to have the most impact as a leader, you have to be willing to lead the whole person. And it’s not a one-time thing. It’s not a weak thing. I mean, it’s an ongoing learning process. It’s a daily interaction.

(24:15 – 24:32)

What I like to say is that it is the foundation of how you lead. It should be how you interact with your people every single day. Now, when I say that, I don’t mean that every single day you ask them, “Hey, how are things at home?” I’m not saying that.

(24:38 – 25:20)

But your folks that work for you should know that what is going on with them holistically matters and they are having issues outside the workplace. That they are working in an emotionally safe environment with people that care about them holistically, that they can tell their supervisor, they can tell their co-workers, “Hey, you guys, I’m dealing with this situation at home. Me and my wife just had a horrible fight. I don’t even know if she’s going to be home when I get home.”

(25:25 – 25:39)

And my mind is not here. We have to have people that work in places where they can communicate that and get the care that they need, not be judged.

(25:42 – 25:57)

Right. Say that those things don’t matter. Get the job done. And when you do that, that person is going to do so much more. You gain so much more. Now, earlier you mentioned something about everyone is different. It is. Yeah, everyone is different.

(26:01 – 26:40)

And this is kind of, you know, a little bit of a D.E. and I think everyone is different, even when you look at people within the same ethnic group. Yeah, I’m African-American. The next person as African-American is different than me. Yeah. Right. Not everyone. We like to put people in buckets, but they’re not. We’re all different. We’re all dealing with different things at different times. Right. All women don’t think the certain way. No. All white males don’t think the certain way. Oh, whatever you whatever group you want to think you put people in, they all have different life experiences. They all come from a certain place.

(26:42 – 27:39)

So think about this. If everyone was working for someone that they felt was truly intentional about building an authentic, trusting relationship with them, and truly valued them as a whole person and was willing to support them through anything that they had going on, how could that not be a truly inclusive environment? In an environment, not that this is why I do it, but it’s a way for people to want to stay somewhere and be involved in a business, because, I mean, if they feel heard and safe and they feel like, again, it’s an emotionally supportive environment, they’re not going to get that everywhere. Right. So I’m a small business, at minimum. That’s what I can do for them.

(27:41 – 28:18)

Right. And I do it because that’s who I am. But it’s part of my—it’s—but it and it can’t be fake. It’s got to be totally real, because I truly do care. But it is our culture. So you have to build that. And that takes time and work. It does take time. But if you think about it, that is actually what inclusion is about. It is how everyone feels. You can have diversity because you just have different people working in the workspace. Right. So you have diversity. Right. But you might not have inclusion.

(28:22 – 29:29)

If everyone doesn’t feel like they—and that’s what this leadership style does—it doesn’t matter who you are. Right. You feel valued. Right. When I talk about the impact of this on retention and the importance of retaining quality talent, I make an emphasis that organizations need to retain all quality, not just quality talent from women, not just quality talent from minorities; we need to retain all quality talent. So this leadership style is not something that you do for specific groups of people. It is what you do for everyone, because once again, if everyone is working for this type of leader that they really feel like cares about them, that is the inclusive environment that we are trying—that corporations spend millions of dollars trying to create.

(29:32 – 30:27)

And I think one of the reasons, in my humble opinion, that we’ve become stagnant in our efforts is because when we talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, we tell people what not to do. Don’t say this. That’s true. It’s true. All diversity training is about the “not”—we don’t tell people what to do. That’s right. And then it gets hard. It’s sticky and then I don’t know how to—and then it’s not solved. So, well, if all you’ve done is tell people what not to do, right, then if they don’t do those things, then they feel like, hey, I’ve done what you told me to do. I didn’t do these things. Right.

(30:31 – 30:41)

But you also didn’t go and engage. You didn’t go and ask that person that, you know, was of Jewish descent, how they’re doing right now with everything that’s going on with Israel and Hamas. Right.

(30:46 – 31:11)

I mean, as the person that is Muslim, how they’re doing right now with all this that’s going on during the pandemic, when the Asian hate—you know, did you engage those individuals? Right. All these things that are going on when you catch wind that there are some people that are pushing back against E.N.I. Right. Because there’s a group of the workforce, you know, citizens that are pushing back against E.N.I. because they don’t think that they’re included in the conversation.

(31:16 – 31:40)

So do we go to our white male counterparts and make sure that they understand that they’re included in the conversation as well? We have a lot of times, once again, when we talk about E.N.I., we talk about the don’ts. Yeah, we don’t talk about the do’s. And for me, one of the foundational things that, as a leader, you need to do.

(31:46 – 32:25)

Is intrusive leadership. You know, I think we have a common leader that we kind of follow a little bit, Simon Sinek. And this topic you were talking about, and I watched his video a decade ago, you know, why? Right. It’s kind of similar, right? You start with why. Right. And how great leaders inspire. And I know you talked about intrusive leadership, and I know you actually had a conversation with Simon, which I’m actually really jealous about, Marcus. I’m a big fan. I’m a big fan of Simon Sinek.

(32:28 – 32:49)

And I mean, the power of why and how leaders really do inspire, but you talked to him about how you’re naming this leadership style. So tell me a little bit about that conversation, and I can understand, you know, we didn’t get into our conversation about the intrusive word.

(32:53 – 33:12)

So can you share a little bit about your story there with that conversation and how you landed on keeping that intrusive leadership as part of your mission and obviously your book? But also, why you think it’s important to use that word?

Oh, without a doubt.

(33:13 – 33:28)

So, yes, as you said, amazing opportunity that I was afforded to talk to Simon Sinek for about 30 minutes, and I will always be grateful for that. I’m a huge fan as well. And, you know, start with why, you know.

(33:31 – 34:23)

And you can’t say it better than he does that without a doubt, when you find out the why—why people are where they are, what motivates them—like, it truly just unlocks the superpowers of leadership. Right. It does. It does, whether you’re marketing or leading, whatever you’re doing. And my thing is that this is not anything different to me. It’s part of it, because to truly understand a person’s why, you have to know the who. You do. Who is the person that you’re working with? Right. So I had this conversation. He read an article that I wrote in 2020. It was the article that I wrote, you know, doing the attention.

(34:28 – 35:00)

Right. And so what was very interesting is he spent the majority of the conversation telling me how he didn’t like the term. He really advocated and pressed for me to find a different term. He wanted me to find a term that was more comfortable, that was more positive, pleasing when you immediately heard it, because when he first heard “intrusive leadership,” he was like, oh, I’m not sure what this is.

(35:04 – 35:27)

He Googled the word “intrusive” and looked up the synonyms, and the synonyms of the word “intrusive” are all negative: intruding, meddlesome, right, invasive, micromanaging, all these terms. So he really questioned if I would ever be able to advocate for a leadership style that had positive impacts with such a negative name.

(35:34 – 36:24)

But once again, even though he said that, what he also said was there’s a great reason for you to keep the term. And what he said is that when you look at the actions that I’m telling leaders to make in order to build authentic, trusting relationships with their people, he said, when you look at the actions, there isn’t a better word that describes those actions than the word “intrusive.” So when you think about it, if you have a problem at the house, if you have a fire in your kitchen and you call the fire department, when they show up, don’t you want them to be intrusive? Yeah, I don’t want them to stay outside.

(36:26 – 36:45)

That’s pretty darn true. They’ve got to jump into action, man. Yeah. But the thing is, you want them, one, you have an issue. Right. You want them to be intrusive. You want them to be invasive, right? Right. But you trust them. You know that they’re there to help.

(36:48 – 37:25)

You know that they’re going to come in, address the problem, not judge you. They are going to provide you support and care. So you don’t, when they come and bust the door down, you don’t look at it in a negative sense. If you were going through something and your demeanor changed, your best friend, your bestie, your favorite cousin, right? They would say, hey, you know, you’re not yourself right now. There’s something that’s going on with you. The way you responded in that situation is not your normal self.

(37:29 – 37:55)

Is everything OK? That’s a meddlesome question. That’s pretty invasive. But I trust them. But you trust. It’s built on trust. So when that friend, that bestie, when they ask the question, we don’t look at it in a negative light. We know that that person cares about us. And we respond differently. What I’m saying is that we need leaders.

(37:59 – 38:13) 

That have built a foundation of trust. That they can ask the same question and get the same response, because the person that they’re asking that question to trust them. They know that they want what’s best for them.

(38:17 – 38:31) 

They know that they’re asking the question because they care about them. And they don’t look at it as being negatively intrusive or intruding. They look at it different.

(38:34 – 38:48) 

But there are going to be times and the reason why I continue using the word is, as I said before. Simon Sinek wanted me to find a word that made people feel comfortable. Leadership is not always comfortable.

(38:52 – 39:31) 

Managers stay in their comfort zone. You can manage resources, you can manage the spreadsheets, you can manage money, the task list. You can stay comfortable managing. But when you really want to lead, when you really want to get to know and engage people, oftentimes you are going to have to be in a situation where it might be a little bit uncomfortable. And so I don’t that is what I’m telling leaders to do, and I’m not going to try to find a comfortable word. So I could tell them to be comfortable being uncomfortable.

(39:36 – 40:02) 

You know, that’s right, you got actually got to be comfortable with being uncomfortable, period, or you’re not going to start a business, you’re not going to get a new job, you’re not going to do or help that person. Like we talked about early on in our conversation, right? And just save a life, it’s not going to be comfortable. You’re not going to be really authentic, right? There are times that I don’t care how far you go up in your organization, how long you been there, sometimes you don’t have the answer.

(40:05 – 40:12) 

There are some times that you’re not at your best. Believe me, Marcus, that is so true. But there are times that you are having a bad day.

(40:15 – 40:44) 

We need leaders that in those moments are willing to be uncomfortable, willing to be humble, willing to be transparent and say. I’m not at my best today. Yeah, or I know we need to go in this direction, I’m not exactly sure how we’re going to get there, but this is the goal and collectively we are going to figure it out.

(40:54 – 41:12)

Or we need people to say, hey, I had a mental health challenge early in my (40:50) career and I got some help and now my career is back on track. My life is back on track. I battled alcoholism. I had some marital problems. I had an issue with my kids as well. This is how I addressed it. I made a mistake on the job. This is how I got over it. We need leaders to be OK having those conversations.

(41:20 – 41:57) 

Yeah. Well, what are some characteristics of somebody who wants to build and to work on this leadership side? What are some characteristics that you think? We’ve hit on a lot of them, I know. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, we talked about emotional intelligence, right? Trust, like that is the foundation. You have to be a person that people trust in order to do this. Yeah. If people don’t trust, they’re not going to open up to you. Right. It’s just as simple as that. Right. Transparent. You and with that is being humble, vulnerable, but being completely transparent.

(42:03 – 42:27) 

I can’t expect someone to tell me about their family if I’m unwilling to tell them about my family. Right. And sometimes you being transparent about yourself is what builds the trust and opens up that dialogue where people feel like it’s OK to talk about what’s going on. Right. Concerted effort. This is a leadership style that takes effort.

(42:31 – 43:06) 

It takes time to get to know people. It does effort to figure out how individuals like to be led. What are the different concerns, the career goals? You have to be willing to invest the time to be a leader that’s willing to make that concerted effort. Active listening. I think there are times leaders get senior and they just think that they’ll have to listen anymore. The only ones that need to speak, they know it all. Intrusive leaders are active. Listen. I need to work on that one, Marcus.

(43:10 – 43:30) 

Yeah, well, we all we all we all can use some help with that. I’m pretty sure my wife will tell you that I can do a little better with my husband. So, OK, so go ahead. I don’t want to interrupt you. I just wanted to I wanted to be real. Yeah, but no, I was actually reading a book, but I’m actually reading a book right now by John Maxwell.

(43:36 – 44:20)

OK, and I think I think the correct title is Good Leaders Ask Great Questions. OK, and in that he took a quote from someone else. But the quote was basically someone feeling like they have been listened to is very close to the feeling of being loved. Hmm. That is how important feeling heard is. Wow. OK, it’s almost like being loved. And think about it. How many times have you been somewhere where someone has not solved the problem, but they have simply listened to you? Yeah. You feel so much better. Yeah. Right.

(44:23 – 44:38) 

And so I often you know, you heard me say a little bit about the difference between managers and one of the things that I like to say is any leader can allow you to speak. They can give you the floor at the meeting. They can allow you to communicate your thought, your idea.

(44:43 – 45:17) 

Any manager can do that. A leader. To make sure that you feel heard. And those are two different things. And sometimes. Managers know, hey, I need to allow people to speak. So, John, what do you have? Thanks, John. Suzy, you got anything? Thank you, Suzy. Appreciate it. Jane, you got something? Thank you, Jane. I allowed you to speak. But do you feel heard? Yeah.

(45:26 – 45:50)

Did I really listen to what John, Tom, Suzy, did I listen to them? Intrusive leaders truly listen. And I will tell you that there have been times that I have worked for people that they did not take my recommendation. I told them to go left and they went right. But they knew I felt like they knew why I told them to go left. I felt heard. And when they explained to me, I understand why you want me to go left.

(45:56 – 46:29) 

But this is why we should go right. I said, well, I’m going to be right there with you. Because I felt heard. Right. I knew the position. Hey, you allow me to speak, but you listen. You made the decision. We’re going right. And I’m going to be right there next next to you doing everything that I can to make sure your idea and your direction works out. Right. Because you listen to me first. I really appreciate the coaching session, by the way.

(46:32 – 46:51) 

Multiple people are going to benefit from this coaching session, but I’m actually enjoying an appreciation that the leadership coaching session that I’m getting this afternoon. (46:41) So, yeah, well, there’s a there’s a coaching there’s a coaching arm of the Canady leadership group. OK, we’re going to talk about that because we I want to make sure we get a couple of things before we you’ve given me an hour of your time.

(46:54 – 47:45) 

And I just I could talk to you forever. And I know you don’t have time for that. So I hope we can connect again. But I mean, leading for the next generation, this is. The humans that that I don’t know if you have kids, but mine are 22 and 18, and there’s no other way I don’t think you can lead them than this way. They don’t appreciate you, you know. Hearing them like we just talked about. So this leadership style, this leadership is which we call it a style, I guess it’s a style, it’s a way of life. It’s a is is critical for future. And I will say, I mean, I’ve got like I said, I’ve got this book right here.

(47:50 – 48:04) 

The intrusive leadership, how to become that leader is really the leadership style of the future from my perspective. And I really I can’t recommend the book enough as I’m marketing it up. Yeah.

(48:06 – 48:19)

Is there anything that you want? This is a Proof Point Podcast. I want to give you the floor to say. Any passing thoughts again, I don’t want to take any more of your time  because you’ve given me an hour of your time, and I’m blessed and honored, by the way, on that to to leave our listeners with.

(48:25 – 49:08) 

Yes, well, first of all, this doesn’t have to be the only time. Really? OK, well, I’m writing that down, Marcus. I will definitely come back if I feel like I can add value to a conversation. But you hit upon.This leadership style for the future. I will tell you that oftentimes. Matter of fact, I think the when I did the research paper on intrusive leadership, I think the title of the research paper was the most critical leadership style for the future. And the reason why is because this younger generation is going to force us to lead different. Yes.

(49:11 – 49:25)

The way most of us were led and previous generations were led is simply not going to work for this younger generation. They they want to bring their whole selves to work. You know, I. I often talk about in the military.

(49:30 – 50:07) 

And we still have people that are in the workforce, in the military today that came up at a time where the slogan was, hey. If the army wanted you to have a wife, we would have issued you. If the Marines wanted you to have a child, we would have put one in your seat back. And the idea was that home was home. You keep your personal life, your personal life. Don’t bring that here. Like everything we need, we give you everything else. That’s your own. That is simply not going to work for this current.

(50:12 – 50:48) 

This younger generation, if an organization wants to be successful. In retaining the amazing talent of this younger workforce, because they are truly talented, they’re talented, amazing, critical thinkers, gifted at all levels. So far advanced than what we were. Yes. And this whole this whole idea that there is a big debt that the younger generation does not have a propensity to serve is wrong. Actually, you might not have.

(50:49 – 51:19) 

They might not have a propensity to serve under your leadership. They have a propensity to serve this country. They this generation loves this country just like any other generation. But they are going to force people to lead different. If you want to win in this globally strategic environment, you are going to have to lead different. And I it is my message the way that I feel.

(51:23 – 52:03) 

You have to be an intrusive leader. You have to make sure that intrusive leadership is part of your organizational fiber. And if you do not, the younger generation is going to quietly quit and find places where they can feel valued in their authentic self, where they do what they can show up to work in an emotionally safe environment. So without a doubt. I would just love to leave with your audience that if you want to be a leader in the future. That has influence.

(52:06 – 52:27) 

A leader that is able to retain people, a leader that is truly able to have impact. If you want to become that leader that people remember and they talk about 50, I mean, 15, 20 years down the road, you have to be an intrusive leader. And if you’re interested in learning more.

(52:30 – 52:52) 

There is one textbook on the leadership style, and it is the one that I wrote that you mentioned earlier. I just so happen to have a copy myself. Going to right there. Intrusive leadership, how to become that leader. This is the only book on this leadership style. If you want to learn about servant leadership, there’s plenty of books.

(52:57 – 53:13)

 If you want to learn about authentic leadership, charismatic leadership. There are so many books on those leadership styles, and I advocate that you read and you research different leadership styles. You’re reading the one that you just mentioned, one that you’re reading right now, too. Exactly. I wrote it down. I’m going to go get it, too.

(53:15 – 53:52) 

Yeah. Become a student of leadership. But I, without a doubt, will tell you that you have to add this one to your leadership library as well. And if you make intrusive leadership the foundation of your leadership style, it will actually enhance your ability to use other leadership styles when those times come, because one leadership style in one situation is not going to be the correct leadership style in another situation. Right. But regardless of the situation.

(53:55 – 54:10) 

If people trust you. And they really know that you feel that you want what’s best for them, the other leadership styles that’s necessary for that situation. You’re going to simply do it better.

(54:14 – 54:20)

Now, that’s that’s perfect. A perfect ending to our discussion today. And what, Marcus, thank you so much for coming.

(54:24 – 54:56) 

We’ve been talking to to Marcus Canady with Canady Leadership Group, a change agent, a hero from from my perspective. And thank you for serving. I can’t say that enough. So thank you for being on the Proof Point Podcast and go get Intrusive Leadership. It’s on Amazon. You can also go to Canady Leadership Group website and learn more. And thank you so much again, Marcus, for being on our podcast today. Yes. Thank you so much.

(54:58 – 55:22) 

Thank you for giving me this opportunity. And as you mentioned, yes, you can go to the website, CanadyLeadershipGroup.com. You can also follow me on LinkedIn. Just search Canady Leadership Group and come join me on this journey as we move forward trying to make better leaders across the world. Yeah, I’ll make sure we put that in the show notes, too. OK, thank you.

(55:26 – 55:30)

Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Proofpoint podcast. We’ll see you again next time. And be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.