Engagement in Action: Data-Driven and Memorable Event Activities

Transcription – Engagement in Action: Data-Driven and Memorable Event Activities

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Welcome to the Proof Point Podcast, where we decode digital success one click at a time. We share key takeaways fueled by data and insights that your team can implement today to drive growth. Now, let’s get started.

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This is Stacie Porter Bilger, your host for the Proof Point Podcast, where I feature B2B and D2C businesses and thought leaders sharing marketing, data tactics, sales strategies, and leadership insights to kickstart your growth in this rapidly changing digital space. This episode is brought to you by Proof Digital. Proof Digital is a strategic and creative performance marketing agency.

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We partner with companies to create data-fueled marketing sales funnels and overall growth strategies. Visit proofdigital.com to learn more. Before I introduce our guest today, I want to give a shout out to Dan Hanover with Event Marketer for introducing me to our guest today.

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Event Marketer, great organization, is the world’s most respected provider of content for event marketing and trade show industries. Check them out at eventmarketer.com. Our guest today is Oren Berkovich. Oren is a serial entrepreneur, facilitator, and event designer whose work focuses on creating experiences that transform how people and ideas connect.

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He is co-founder of Projectory, a team of facilitators, designers, futurists, and producers who join forces to turn information-dense events into engaging, memorable experiences. Internal meetings, large external events, big company off-sites, small board retreats, leadership development programs, for him, the setting is secondary for his passion of hospitality and experience design. Oren, thanks for joining me today.

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Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I really, I love your passion of building this company.

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As a starting point, would you talk a little bit about your journey, how you got to starting your company? Yeah, absolutely. Actually, you know, if you had asked me earlier in my career if I end up producing events and being in the live event industry, I would have never guessed it. I kind of rolled into it, mostly just kind of following my curiosity.

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I got connected with an organization called Singularity University, a think tank that started in Silicon Valley about 12 years ago now, I think, that was really kind of focused on the future and bringing people, senior executives and brilliant entrepreneurs together. And I got really curious to check it out and see what’s going on there and was fortunate enough to attend some of the programs there at the NASA Research Park and was really blown away by how powerful this medium is of bringing people together around a shared purpose or around shared passion or interest. And yeah, when I came back to Canada after that experience, it felt like there was nothing like that here.

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And I’ve decided to quit my job and build it. And so that kind of was the first time that I realized, oh, I now in the business of putting events together and kind of had to learn the, I guess, art and science, if you will, of how does that work. And yeah, that kind of got me into that space.

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And since then, it’s been about a decade, I would say. Is that right? It’s been a decade. OK. I didn’t know how long. Something along those lines. Yeah, maybe nine years, almost a decade since the first Singularity University event.

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But yeah, I came back, quit my job, raised money, built a team, started putting large events together all over Canada and then some smaller events that are kind of more executive education, you know, leadership retreats and just got deeper and deeper into this space of bringing people and ideas together. And we can talk about kind of where that led me to with this recent experience. (4:32) But that’s kind of how it all started.

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No, I mean, that’s a great story. And I think what you probably saw, which I see when you have these events where people come together and actually there is interaction, there’s facilitation, there’s ideas being shared instead of those events where you kind of go and everybody sits at a table and doesn’t talk to one another and no ideas are generated. But the magic that can happen when you pull people together and you have those tools in which your company provides to facilitate, I mean, ideas rising to the top like no other.

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And we can talk a little bit more about that and what it looks like. But I don’t think I’ve seen anything like it, Oren. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like it.

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So it’s fun to see and it’s so needed. You know, it’s so needed when we come together and whether it’s a board or a business or a community around and have a facilitated exercise. It just it’s just so much better from an engagement standpoint and actually results.

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So and I want to go back to it or I’ll pay for it. Yeah, I mean, whether it’s an internal event or external event that you pay for, I think there is this fundamental shift that we are trying to help people approach, which is I think in some way people think events are an opportunity to share content. And that’s usually what most of the time an event is spent on is to have a few people on stage, keynote speaker, a panel, you know, fireside chat.

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There’s all these different kinds of things that are supposed to be different, but they’re all basically the same, which is we’re going to just broadcast information at you and you’re going to be sitting there and listening. Yeah. And I think the reality is, oh, yeah, you bring up our website.

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Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’m bringing it up so that as you’re talking about it, people can visualize exactly what you’re talking about.

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And I think that tagline that we have there captures it. Right. What we’re really trying to do is help have events that have less talking heads and more heads talking.

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So we kind of go beyond that medium of having people on stage talk at you and instead create ways for the audience to participate in the conversation. And that shift I was mentioning is really kind of shifting from bringing people together so we can download information to bringing people together so we can do something. And yeah, there’s all sorts of things going on on the screen now, but at some point, well, I can kind of talk through some of it. Yeah. If you’d like. Yeah.

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I know. Yeah. I want you to once we have this up here and then we’ll kind of dig a little deeper. What what are some of the things here that that I’m seeing? I know it’s being replayed here, but I think it’s kind of really feel the experience that’s happening here. Yeah. And if you if you click on the what we do page, there is the video that this is extracted from.

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Yeah. Essentially, what you see here is a sizzle reel of some of our experiences. Yeah. And. Essentially, the way the way to think about it is what Projectory does and the website is Projectory dot live. Yes.

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Where you can see some of some of these products. We have built different ways for event organizers to bring their content to life. So we’re not coming in to facilitate our own content.

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We’re not doing workshops on innovation or design thinking or anything along those lines.We are really there to help the organizer bring their content to life through mechanisms. And I think what is clearly you see immediately in the videos as you play them or the images is that our things are very visual and physical.

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So we don’t use QR codes. We try to stay away from anything that’s digital because we found over the years that that actually is less engaging. We want to actually get people away from their phones and into kind of connecting with one another, looking at the people across the table from you, doing something together.

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And that physical medium. Yeah. You see, we use yarn and pink and balloons and foam and felt and all these other materials and yeah, the idea is to really get people to engage, to discuss, to synthesize information, to commit to next steps, to explore and ideate on different things.

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And the way this works is really we kind of work with the event organizer to identify opportunities where we can follow up after a keynote or after a panel and just add another layer for the audience that takes them beyond just being talked at, but I can give them an opportunity to immerse themselves in the content in meaningful ways. And we found that the physical medium is helpful. And then, yeah, we have all sorts of products like that that enable turning attendees into participants, as we like to say.

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Now, that really helps me visualize your product and what you’re also trying to create. I don’t know how many events that I’ve been talking heads and maybe got 10% at best out of what those conferences and really the joy that I get of going to those are when the speakers aren’t talking, when I’m talking to other people, gaining their insights, gaining their experiences, gaining partnerships that exist out there. So that’s typically what I get when I go to a conference.

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And if it’s not facilitated, it’s really hard to do. Yeah. And, you know, I think there is a lot of things that you can start seeing that are happening that indicate that this is a real need and this is what led us to start Projectory.

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You know, you see a lot of events that I mean, certainly this has been my experience where I’m not even going in sessions. I’m just outside. I want to meet people.

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And going inside means that I’m just going to be on my phone or my laptop. And it’s, you know, a lot of times, even if it’s big name speakers that are in the main stage, then like a lot of times that content is everywhere. Like I don’t really need to I mean, we could come back to I know we were chit chatting before before you hit record on the recent event we had.

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Yeah. We were opening before Scott Galloway. So yeah. And I know his material. I don’t necessarily need to be in the room. I mean, sometimes where it’s big names like Scott, there is some cachet to like, I’d like to see him in action on stage.

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But most times people don’t go into sessions because they want to connect with other people. And, you know, they find more of that outside. Yeah. And I will say it’s different in internal events. If it’s your CEO speaker or your head of sales or whatever, like you can’t really just be outside like internal events have a different dynamic. But even then, I would say it’s not how we’re going to get people motivated for the next sales year or the next, you know, by just by going through dense slides.

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And so I think that’s the first thing that you see is people are either in the room because they have to be or because of reasons that are not necessarily the content on screen. A lot sometimes, obviously, some people and sometimes that doesn’t happen. But a lot of times I would say that’s the case.

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That’s only been my experience. And then outside, you know, you start running into some other things where, you know, people give you squeeze bowls or popcorn, you’re trying to avoid eye contact with people just because, you know, they’re trying to sell you on something that has less to do with what they actually do. Like, I have never been in an expo area, given a squeeze bowl by a company that that is actually what they do is they create squeeze bowls.

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Mostly they just try to give you free pens and stuff because they want your business to start. And it has nothing to do with what the company does or what the content of the event is. It’s usually just like we want to get you closer so we can sell you on to what we’re building.

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And that’s not helpful either. And then everybody leaves and it’s like it never happened. All the conversations didn’t happen. All the notes that people took, like it just disappears, especially in internal events. You know, we do sometimes leadership days and conferences that will have, you know, the top 300 people of an organization. OK.

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But then they have tens of thousands sometimes of people that work for them that need all the information that was discussed somehow need to be cascaded and shared with their teams. And they’re not really empowered and giving any tools or ways of doing it other than we’ll share with you the notes or the presentations. And that doesn’t really capture all the things that happened in that conference.

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Right. There’s lots of these problems. So your solution not only helps elevate those experiences and pull out those ideas, but also captures it so that it can be shared with others. And you have some data components as well to help. I mean, that’s another thing. You have these big events, you spend lots of money on them. What’s the outcome of them? And you have some data. Talk a little bit more about that.  Yeah.

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I mean, I think once you make the shift from thinking about your event as an opportunity to download information and instead you’re shifting to think about, OK, like everybody’s here in person, everybody wants to connect, everybody wants to, you know, leverage the fact that they’re here in person with their colleagues or with, you know, industry peers or other people to actually achieve something, then it generates a lot of output because they’re not just listening. They’re actually doing something. And so with all that work that’s getting done or ideas that are being captured or, you know, things that are happening, it generates a lot of output.

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So as soon as we started creating these ways to engage the audiences, we realized, oh, this is actually creating so much useful information for the organization. And I’ll give you an example. Yeah.

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Because, you know, we talked a little bit about in-room engagement and some of the behaviors we saw. And I’ve talked about some of those examples. But the other things that sometimes you see people do, and this will explain the example in some ways.

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But, you know, sometimes you have things happening in the main room, like the emcee or somebody will say, OK, well, we just sat for a really long time. So why don’t we all do a little stretch break and get up and stretch for five minutes before we come? Like, to me, this is clearly this is yelling bad design, like if you got to a point where you need to have everybody stand up and do a stretch break, they’ve been sitting for too long. And this stretch break is not going to be helpful.

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And they’re checked out, by the way, and they’re on their phones, they’re checking their emails, they’re checked out. And they’re not really like it’s not really going to make a meaningful difference if you give them two minutes to stand up. And similarly, if you tell them, OK, you just heard this 30 minute panel.

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Now talk about it at your table. Also, this is as soon as you say something like this, everybody is going to check their phones or say like, oh, no, I have to like talk to this other person about this or pretend. It’s just it doesn’t have enough utility.

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It’s too loose. Right. Yeah. And so what we’re trying to do is just create a little bit of structure. We kind of think about it like scaffolding. Right.

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Like it doesn’t need to be super orchestrated and scripted. It just needs to create a way for people that make it more likely for them to lean in. And so the example I promised I’ll share is something very simple again, doesn’t have to be complicated, but it does need to be thoughtful, intentional and well-designed.

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And I think that is key principles to keep in mind for people who are trying to do that. You know, we came up with something called the learning action matrix. You can find it on the website.

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It’s it’s a simple two by two, not the kind of two by two that you have to get up to the right and up. But this basically is a creative canvas that enables people to capture insights, basically aha moments that they had, questions, things that they want to keep discussing or things that are still unknown. So that’s kind of that learning top part.

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And then the bottom half is the action part is things that we want to do, experiments that we can already run and sometimes even more important, things that we want to stop doing, because a lot of times it’s like, oh, we should be doing this and this and this. But obviously, everybody’s very busy already. So it’s not like we have spare time.

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So we actually want to do something. What is the things that we want to stop doing to make space for it? And so putting that creative canvas in the center of the table and giving people an opportunity to discuss and synthesize and react to it, it’s that little structure to make this a lot more meaningful. But then once you have that, it opens up a lot of opportunities.

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So, for example, you know, imagine you do it at an event that has 200, 300 people. Right. We’re talking 30, 40, 50 round tables. So you put one canvas like this on every table. Then, you know, and you will have hundreds of these questions generated and hundreds of these aha moments or things to do and not to do. And then once you have that, OK, what can we do with it? Well, there’s quite a few things you can do right there in the moment.

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So I want to find a table that has a question that maybe we can match with some other tables action. And maybe there is a insight that somebody has that actually answers somebody’s. And so you can start doing some room shareouts that make this whole thing meaningful.

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But now with AI tools and other ways, you can capture all this. And so we imagine, you know, we have events that we will literally have 3000, you know, of these ideas, whether it’s aha moments or questions. And you start seeing patterns and then you give the organization insights into here are the top 10 questions that are on everybody’s minds.

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Right. Or here are very common actions that people want to take coming out of this session that you just heard. And it’s so not only that it gives you an opportunity to activate the conversation after an event is done, it can generate so much content that you can then share back with the participants or hand it to the participants to share with their teams.

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You know, here’s the top questions that are on everybody’s minds or ears, like a list of 20 insights that collectively our group came out of that session with. Like there’s just so much stuff that can be done with it just by making that shift from instead of talking to the audience, enabling them to be part of the conversation and helping them generate something meaningful that can serve them and the industry or the organization after an event is done. So that’s just an example of it.

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That is totally a great example. And I mean, I don’t know how many events I go to on an annual basis. And I don’t think I’ve felt that at hardly any of them or maybe none of them.

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I mean, I also love the thought process where you’re talking about not only the content production here, but and also taking what you capture here, put it in AI and leveraging AI to elevate what’s the main themes that are coming out of the event. So you expedite the whole process of both human personalization and leveraging technology to put those things into work. So I think that’s exciting.

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That’s really exciting. Yeah. And I would say to me, it’s also more of the usefulness of that, because another thing I see a lot of times is people share these emails like, oh, too bad we’ve missed you at so and so event.

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But here’s a recording of, you know, eight hours of video of all the sessions or here’s ike a website where you can see all the presentations and all the videos. It’s like, I don’t know if you’re a sports fan. I am. I’m a big sports fan. So I know the baseball cap might be a trigger of that. But yes, I sometimes watch tennis.

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And tennis is awesome. Yes. And if I and I, you know, it’s not like something I follow religiously or anything like that, but I can’t imagine like missing a game that I wanted to watch and then watching the whole like three hours of that game again.

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Like nobody does that. Right. You want to see a clip, like a three minute clip of the highlights or the stats or you want to hear the commentary about it or you want to read an editorial about that game or what happened or whatever.

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You’re not going to watch the whole replay. But this is what we’re giving participants. Right. They’re like, oh, you missed the session. Here is an hour and a half of video recording. Now we’ll watch it.

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Nobody’s going to watch it. But if you are able to actually distill, synthesize, leverage the conversation and it’s things that it’s not the speaker that said it, you’re not just using AI to cut the video into a three minute reel. You’re actually leveraging what the participants have generated.

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That becomes something that, you know, people can really benefit from. And we have so many examples of how like one leadership event we’ve done use that learning action matrix. And then a month after didn’t ask me anything where they addressed the top 10 questions that everybody had, you know, or, you know, you mentioned Dan and our friends at Event Marketer.

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Yeah. You know, like they’re in the content business. So leveraging the fact that you have so many people together to generate content that can then be shared back with them is it’s it’s invaluable.

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It is. And doing it in a concise way that I can digest it and not spend an hour and a half to three hours or four hours that I don’t have. So so how does somebody engage with you all? What does that look like? And I mean, I know you’re trying to also not only again, you said you’re not facilitating this.

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You’re providing the products and the solutions for it to happen. Is that accurate? There’s two ways of engaging us. One is bring us and we will help with the facilitation.

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And the other way is we will send you the product with, you know, slides, facilitation guide, anything like that. And the other thing that we haven’t really touched on, but it is part of the work we do is is interactive installations that we build outside the room. So these are not like things that we do.

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These are things that enable conversations during the break. And so these are physical, large structures that we’ve designed that they could be assembled with no tools and are still engaging. So this is kind of going back to instead of going outside and getting a squeeze ball, you can actually have something that continues the conversation that you’ve had in the room and creates a way for you to engage with other participants in a fun, playful way that is not, you know, salesy or awkward or anything like that and is visual and interactive.

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So, yeah, we sometimes send those out to events as well. And sometimes we will come in and build it and guide and tear it down. So, you know, engaging with us, you just need to find us and we get into a conversation.

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We need to know what is already happening in the event. A lot of times a good starting point will be to understand how much time in the run of show you want to dedicate to interactivity. If you tell us, hey, like you have five minutes before lunch, there’s very little things that we can do.

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But if you know if there is 20 minutes, 30 minutes after a keynote or I mean, I would say lunch is after lunch. Middays are always like low energy point in the program. So that’s always a good opportunity to create something that includes some movements or some participation.

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So we basically work with whoever designs the program or the event to find opportunities to inject some of that and then curate what is the right product for this based on the time, the budget, space, the objective. You know, what do you want people to do? You want them to be to be active and participate, but it needs to be focused on an objective. Like, is it about, you know, the learning action matrix we talked about? It’s a it’s a great activity for distilling information and reflecting on it.

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But there’s other activities that we do that are intended to build commitments towards next steps or activities that intended to help prioritize, you know, a list of things that need to happen. So it really depends what you want to achieve. But it is a little bit of kind of this matching game, matching the type of interaction to the amount of time, to the budget, to the space.

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And then sometimes we have an opportunity to develop something new, right? Customize something for an event. That’s what gets us the most excited. And now we have quite a lot of things in the making that we’re going to develop later this year.

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So, yeah, engaging us is pretty much like reaching out and then starting the conversation. The earlier in the planning cycle you are, the more flexibility we have to pick the right thing and whether we send it over or whether we come in to help do it with you. That’s really depends on, you know, all these other factors that come into play.

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And that’s that’s awesome to know. And I look forward to sharing that information out there for folks. The I almost with your I mean, the experiential piece, I mean, design, I almost hope you don’t take offense.

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I almost think like you’re bringing Disney’s experience to like business community. Is that is that wrong? Or I mean, I’m a big when you go into certain organizations. Disney’s obviously a king at this.

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But you have this experience when you when you go and you don’t forget. So often we’re not able to create that in traditional business settings or organizations. I feel like you kind of bringing that out to, you know, the business world to bring those experiences to elevate their game.

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I could see why, you know, you would draw some comparison between it. And I want to maybe suggest what parts of that experience maybe resemble some of the things that we do and maybe what parts of the things we do maybe is different than Disney in some ways, because I think it is an important distinction from a design perspective. And look, I’m happy to spend as much time as we want talking about us and projectory.

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I’d love to whoever listens to this could come out with some ideas that, you know, even if they don’t engage us at all and they just can take some of these ideas to try to do it on their own, that that is net positive. And so back to Disney, I think there’s something about that experience that, you know, for me, it’s immersive, like you’re in it, you’re not on your phone, you are in that ride, you know, you’re in that moment, you’re present. I think that is big key.

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I think it is memorable. Definitely. You know, a lot of people have, you know, great memories of certain rides that they’ve been on. And I want our products to be memorable. And we want to help the event organizers have their event be more memorable. So, you know, definitely I think it’s, you know, it’s it’s thoughtful, it’s well designed, it’s visual.

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Like I definitely think there is a lot there and it’s magical in some ways. Like, yes, you look at some of the things that we do and we’re not putting people on roller coasters and we’re not addressing characters. But there we do create these moments of surprise and delight, I think.

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And where I would draw a distinction from Disney is in some ways, I might be wrong about this, but at least in the kind of theme park world of it, it’s purely entertainment. Yes. No, this is about bringing community and results.

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Yes. And I would say for us, there is this spectrum between, you know, you might have heard the term edutainment, like education and entertainment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I think there is it’s a powerful combination and there is we want to get to that right balance when it’s just entertaining, entertaining enough to be very engaging. Like think about, you know, lecture as the one end of that spectrum. It’s purely educational.

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There’s nothing entertaining about it. And which is why it’s dry and it’s very information dense. And then I think about the Disney roller coaster ride as something that’s purely entertainment, like there’s no educational value in it at all.

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And so you want to find that balance between those two things where it’s entertaining enough that people want to lean in. And we do want to facilitate and do things that are pushing it a little bit closer from the educational part and helping, you know, a CEO talk about next quarter goals in a way that doesn’t just involve slides with graphs and slide, you know, size six fonts. It needs to be brought in a little bit closer towards something that is engaging and playful.

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But we also don’t want to bring a magician on stage and make people laugh and do improv workshops because that’s purely entertainment and it has no utility to it. And so finding that balance is, I think, the secret sauce that makes some of the products that we bring to be so impactful to the events that host us. That’s a great clarification.

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And it’s really about bringing people together to find solutions or, you know, come up with a game plan or I mean, even when little meetings like you were talking about board meeting, I can when we have something facilitated in a way that brings out ideas, we elevate our game as an organization. So there’s a lot of exciting opportunities across different types of groups in which you serve so that, you know, organizations, communities are just moving forward with the best ideas that, you know, that elevate to the top. Sometimes we don’t do that when we have talking heads.

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Yeah, I mean, it’s such a huge investment, right, of time and resources and also everybody’s time, because even in internal events, you’ve got people from the organizations that are out of market. They’re not talking to customers. They’re not talking to, you know, stakeholders.

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They’re not out there doing things and doing their work. Instead, they usually pause everything they’re doing and they’re taking a pause on their day job to be there. And so not leveraging it is such a missed opportunity.

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And, you know, that that is the thing that I think people really need to underscore and underline. It’s it’s it’s really, you know, events are a means to an end. It’s never about the event. It’s never about, oh, well, let’s just bring people together. I mean, maybe that is for a Christmas party, but for professional events like you want the events to trigger something else in the world. Right.

(33:15 – 33:20)

The strategy brought to life, the, you know, decision that needs to be implemented, something. And so you have to really think about what happens after the event. In some ways, it’s more important than the event itself.

(33:23 – 33:40) 

The event needs to enable that. But if you’re not really focused on what are we doing in the event to enable that, it’s a missed opportunity. That’s a great point. Such a great point. I. Anything, this is the proof point podcast. I mean, that was a pretty big point.

(33:42 – 34:21) 

Anything that you want to make sure that we make a final point here as we kind of wrap things up? I mean, I feel like this is the final, but maybe the only point that I think is really at the core of my passion personally, but definitely the work that Projectory does is I really believe that events can and should be participatory and there is ways of doing it. And it really starts with first the intention that we are going to do it and then being thoughtful about how we’re doing it. And when it’s done well, it unlocks tremendous value and opportunity.

(34:35 – 34:45) 

One, congratulations, and especially some of the events that you’ve already been putting forward. I mean, we’re talking about the one with Scott Galloway, a lot of change agents that you that you’re working with. And so congratulations.

(34:48 – 34:55) 

And I look forward to staying connected with you. We’ve been talking with Oren Berkovich with Projectory. Oren, thank you for coming on the proof point podcast.

(34:58 – 35:11)

We’ll add your domain at the end so everybody can connect with you. Thank you so much. Great to be with you. Thanks for listening to the Proof Point Podcast. We’ll see you again next time. And be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.